Resource type: Podcast
How can young people harness their strength to drive movements for change? In this episode of Emerging Leaders, we speak to Dan Lawes, Co-CEO of My Life My Say, a youth-led charity aiming to drive democratic involvement among young people. Dan explores his own journey from coordinating his classmates in school to create a youth democracy conference to his current work with My Life My Say, and how his early learnings are still informing his work today.
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Transcript
00:05
Munny Purba (MP)
How can young people harness their strength to drive movements for change?
00:09
MP
In this episode of Emerging Leaders, we speak to Dan Lawes, Co-CEO of My Life My Say. Since his school days, Dan has been a passionate advocate for youth engagement in democracy.
00:21
MP
Dedicating his career to amplifying young voices in political spaces. Our conversation delves into how we can create inclusive environments that uplift diverse perspectives and how to ensure these spaces remain accessible for future generations of change makers.
00:37
MP
Thank you so much, Dan, for joining us for the Emerging Leaders podcast we’re really happy to have you here.
00:42
Dan Lawes (DL)
Such a pleasure to be here. We absolutely love everything that Cumberland Lodge do. You know, the way you innovate and ensure that all young people’s voices are heard with all the work you’re doing and integrate that in Cumberland Lodge’s work is just truly remarkable.
00:55
MP
Thank you so much. I think we have a lot of alignment. So I’m excited to talk to you about that.
00:57
MP
So I think we should probably jump straight into it and kind of ask you, what were your motivations behind getting involved with this sort of work around engaging young people in democracy, government, politics?
01:08
DL
Yeah. So, my story actually started when I was 16 and I’m from Manchester and it was post-Brexit. So it was, it was the EU referendum that really sort of catalysed my first interest in politics. But my mum’s a teacher. My dad works in the NHS, so I’ve always been surrounded by this idea that politics really impacts our lives because it was impacting the lives of our family every single day. But the EU referendum, I think was a real wake up call for me and it wasn’t necessarily the frustration at the result, what it was more about was the lack of information available to young people, the lack of effort made by policymakers to reach young people, to make them understand and to really connect that these issues are going to impact you for the rest of your life.
01:45
DL
But it did feel like a generation was making a decision for another generation without listening to them, and that was on both sides of the argument.
01:52
DL
And so what I decided to do was get as many of my mates involved as possible on a budget of nothing and go around youth centres, schools and just talk about politics and just do that peer-to-peer engagement work where young people form a grassroots movement and we never pretend to be anything we’re not, we’re just 14 young people going across the North-West talking about politics.
02:12
DL
And yeah, we managed to reach 14,000 young people through school assemblies across our region because we were all young people in schools, so we could easily ask them. So there, I really saw the power of that peer-to-peer engagement and more importantly, what youth-led engagement looks like.
02:24
DL
And I’m a massive believer in that, and a champion of it in the sector because I think when young people tell other young people to get involved, it is so powerful. And so that was what I was sort of doing then and then it sort of got involved with My Life, My Say’s work from that. When I was about 17 or 18, I went to a Democracy Café and I really saw this amazing new format to engage young people directly, which was again up in Manchester. I found out that the Democracy Café was organised by My Life My Say, and now have the privilege of being its Co-CEO. So.
02:54
DL
You know, I always think back to that 17, 18-year-old Dan who attended that Democracy Café and go well, you know, young people who attend those Democracy Cafés now, give it four to six years and you could be you could be CEO of the organisation.
03:03
MP
Yeah. And I think that’s such an inspirational story, but also from the start of that journey, it was really about youth voice, young people getting involved and actually kind of being collaborative and collective.
03:14
MP
I see that with what My Life My Say is doing. It seems like it’s growing and getting bigger and bigger, which is so exciting to see and I think we’ll talk a bit about your kind of biggest successes. But I think what would be interesting initially is to think about, through that journey, what were some of the potential barriers that you faced?
03:31
DL
If I’m really honest with you, you know some of those barriers that I faced are sadly still there and I’m still feeling them. The big one being, the way you’re underestimated, the way you’re patronised, the way you talked to as a young person with an idea.
03:44
DL
It can really feel as though no one is out there wanting to listen and really take it seriously. Now the dial has changed after you know a lot of hard work from, for example, our founder Mete. There’s so many young voices who have really tried to push us out to prove to stakeholders, to companies, to funders, to folks even in our sector.
04:02
DL
That, you know, when young people themselves can drive this change, the possibilities are endless. And I’m very, very lucky, I acknowledge that, you know, I’ve got privilege. I think on that youth sort of element going into those spaces and walking in and being the only young person there consistently can be really freaking lonely at times. And often made to feel like space isn’t there for you.
04:25
DL
And you know, I still walk into events now where, even those organised by people you’d really hope have got, you know, their intentions. And you often feel still that sense of, oh, I’m the only one here who looks the way I do. But what you realise is you know, yes, you may be the only one, who looks the way you do but you also that also means that you might you know you’ve got so many unique angles to approach the issues being discussed in that room.
04:53
DL
If anything the right of you to be in that room is so powerful and so important, so I’ve definitely faced those barriers consistently and they’re still there, but my ability to deal with them has changed. Which is being, now that we’ve proven ourselves and I feel that I’ve proven myself as an individual and a campaigner, I know that I deserve to be in that room.
05:08
DL
Now I think the job comes of actually opening the door and acting as a wedge, so that as many young people from underrepresented, diverse backgrounds are able to come through with me. Because I’ve had enough of being lonely in those rooms. Now I think I really want to bring as many young people in them, too. So those barriers have been there for a while.
05:29
DL
We are getting better, but that doesn’t mean we’re there yet.
05:31
MP
No, and I think it’s so true to say that as much as you try and kind of work around them, potentially, they’ll still be there and it’s fine to adapt and you know, change things. And as the system changes kind of moving along with that too, but not being put off potentially by those barriers, and understanding that you have to keep going if you’re passionate, if you believe in it, keep going.
05:48
MP
And I think you’re testament to that, so thank you for pushing those barriers for everyone.
05:54
MP
But let’s now then talk about those successes. And so, if you’re thinking about My Life My Say, or even before that, what do you think was some of the biggest successes that you’ve seen in this work that you’re doing?
06:04
DL
Yeah, it’s been incredible to join. I mean, My Life My Say had a lot of momentum by the time I joined last year and some of our award-winning Democracy Cafés were doing incredible across the country and really reaching across the country, which was incredible to see. We had Next Gen, which is the UK’s biggest youth summit, talking about democracy and culture. And so you know that’ll be happening again this year, but that was fantastic.
06:24
DL
My real challenge was looking at voter registration and looking at the general election campaign as a whole because it was a real critical moment for us because, you know, I think there’s a collective feeling of, okay, if not now, when and if not us, who. We really are designed to be there for young people for democratic engagement purposes. And then we had the collapse of the British Youth Council, which was just an incredible shock and incredibly sad for the sector.
06:44
DL
But okay, well, we really are one of the voices that young people will be looking to during this general election. So we’ve coordinated National Voter Registration Day every year, and that’s been imported from the United States as an idea to get young people engaged in democracy. So we had some of those partnerships that were really interesting. What we wanted to do though, was create a landmark campaign that really did things differently, really innovated.
07:05
DL
And most crucially, co-created with young people. So I really wanted to bring that background of, you know, 16, 17. But there was a consensus around the table as well here in My Life My Say and in our partnership with Shape History and I Will.
07:17
DL
That we wanted this to be co-created with young people. So the immense success was that this campaign was co-created with young people and it was youth-led the entire way from young people in the teams, young people in governance, to young people actually designing it as part of the steering group, talking to our designers and they were able to come up with this amazing campaign that was able to speak to young people directly.
07:38
DL
And there were multiple facets of the Give an X campaign, which I think were really exciting. The first one was its partnerships. Now its partnerships were really exciting because we did not want to work in silos.
07:48
DL
I think that there’s sort of been a feeling for a while that often the space can feel like we’re working in silos, not reaching out of it. We really want to bring the youth sector, those organisations that direct delivery with young people, the fact that we are able to bring them all together from the youth sector was brilliant. And then on top of that, the fact that we had a campaign that brands wanted to buy into as well was really special.
08:07
DL
You know, the fact that we really pushed it out in multiple ways, we proved to the sector that youth-led leadership can really work and it can have extraordinary impact and it can make young people themselves feel included and like this was their campaign. That was really beautiful for me, was to really see young people claim Give an X. And actually go, this is what we want. This is what we want from organisations in this space.
08:32
DL
But then you also had brands being able to jump on board too, and that’s almost a collective unity because that connection was really incredible. So hey, we’re delighted with the results, but we’re also aware that there’s so much more to be done.
08:42
MP
Yeah. And I saw that campaign and you know it was everywhere and the partnerships were so, you know, amazing to see that come to light. It shows, like you said, that it doesn’t have to be one organisation or one kind of sector doing it. It can be across sectors and it can be exciting and innovative. And I think definitely putting words to actions.
09:02
MP
Not just saying we’re gonna have it youth-led. We’re gonna show that it’s gonna be like and really make it make it work. And so I think big congratulations.
09:09
DL
Thank you so much. I think if there can be any legacy of it, it’s that young people have so much power. They really do. And they are the best messengers.
09:17
MP
And it’s definitely a good message to send to all young people out there. And actually that kind of brings us nicely on to the next point, which is a bit about leadership.
09:24
MP
So you obviously being a leader in many different ways, not just at My Life My Say but outside of that too. What sort of skills do you think that you have that allow you to take that leadership role?
09:35
MP
And also what do you think that you gained? So skills you’ve gained throughout your journey.
09:40
DL
I was actually asked this question by a member of staff earlier this morning, actually. Really sort of asking like what I’m proud of in terms of leadership etcetera. And the one thing I really do want to prove when you’re young is that feeling of you’ve got to do even more work, right? To be able to be held to the same standard.
09:57
DL
And you’re the last asked a question. But I want to prove that you can be compassionate, also incredibly strong as a young person, you can have that strength in your convictions. You can have a strong voice in rooms, but you can also be incredibly generous and kind and lift people up alongside you.
10:13
DL
And I very much acknowledge that sort of the next generation of activists will also be looking to My Life My Say again and, by doing so, also looking at my style of leadership. And I really want to make sure that when I’m in those rooms that I’m able to bring other people with me.
10:29
DL
If we’re able to, like, take that and amplify that massively, you know across sectors, across nationwide politics, we’re able to bring our communities with us and also look to other communities and bring them with us too. I think we’re onto something really exciting. So you know, and that sort of style of leadership, that strength, also having the back of other young campaigners that need that voice 100%.
10:49
DL
We’ll be there, but there is so much more to be done across the UK and I think we’ve got the answers for it. So we’re gonna give it a good go and I’m gonna learn on the way. I’m very much acknowledged that I’m 23. I’m a young Co-CEO and I’m going to make mistakes. I will and I’ve told the board that I’ve told my team that but it’s going to be an incredible journey.
11:08
MP
Well, I think that’s also really important to point out there that, as a leader, you’re able to be vulnerable to say that you won’t have all the answers, but you’re willing to learn. And that’s what you mentioned there, you know.
11:18
MP
Like I said there, bringing other people along for the journey that will represent a diverse community is important to you and you know it’s something that you can argue some leaders, they kind of leave people behind because they’ve got into a position of power. But you know that’s not something you want to do. And I think that’s really impressive.
11:36
DL
Most definitely. There are gonna be times for example where My Life My Say is able to grant opportunities to certain people right? Whether that’s, you know, having the Prime Minister in the room or having policymakers in the room, and I think our first question always as an organisation is who should be in that room as well?
11:52
MP
But I think also what’s really helpful is for our listeners and other young people out there to think about how they can get involved in campaigns for change.
12:02
MP
So whether that be campaigns around democratic engagement or just general issues that they care about, what advice would you sort of give them to go for it and do it if they care about it?
12:13
DL
No 100%. So I can start with My Life My Say and so what we’ve got an offer and then there are so many other ways that they can get involved themselves as well. So My Life My Say have loads of opportunities for young people to get involved. We’ve got our, I spoke to Democracy Cafés before. What Democracy Cafés are, they reinvent the 17th century idea of elites gathering in cafés and what we do is we turn them into a hub for democracy, right.
12:32
DL
We find the local cafés that young people already go to. Right, they’re a part of their, sort of, their third space, their social life, they go there anyway.
12:40
DL
And we find them and we bring young people from that community together and they identify the issues facing them and also create youth-led solutions to them as well. So you know you gain so many skills from them as well and you can get your voice heard. We also have policymakers there listening to young people as well. So keep an eye out for Democracy Cafés because that’s a great way to get started.
13:00
DL
We then have Next Gen. The UK’s biggest youth summit on all things democracy and culture coming out in November this year. So that’s gonna be really cool in terms of being able to engage and also meet other campaigns as well. You know, you might be there because you’re interested or you’ve seen My Life My Say and Give an X’s work, but you might go and actually meet other partners that you want to engage with.
13:15
DL
So that’s, that’s very much there and an exciting opportunity for young people. And then you’ve got other things. You’ve got The Squad, and what The Squad is, is it’s a collective of change makers across the UK and it’s a community of change makers who can come together and really share information.
13:30
DL
They can also just, you know, have a good laugh as well and just form that change making community. That’s a really cool area for 18 to 30-year-olds to get involved.
13:37
DL
In terms of, if you’re sort of beyond the stages of The Squad, Democracy Cafés, and you’ve gone, actually look, I wanna start setting up my own thing. So what I’d always say is have a look at what resources you have and where you wanna go and what resources can you utilise to get to where you want to go. So I mentioned my example of when I was younger, when I was 16, I just knew I wanted to do something and channel that, that frustration a little bit into action.
13:58
DL
I made a list of like what resources do I have? Now, it’s a very small list. I will be honest with you, but it was bigger than I thought it would be. So you know the biggest resource are the people around you. They always are. Now, if you’re at school, people say, oh, I’m just at school. I don’t have the resource.
14:14
DL
I go actually, you’ve got the best resource, right? You’ve got your mates around you who you know, some of them will hopefully share your vision and if they don’t share your vision you can persuade them over lunch time to share your vision. You’ve got teachers who care right and will be really interested, fingers crossed, in what you wanna do.
14:29
DL
But you also have a school, you got a school. You got a, you got a venue, you got classrooms. If you can get a teacher on board, just one, you then suddenly have something very powerful. You, you have a hub where you can start talking about democracy. But that all came from just thinking to yourself. What are the issues I care about? What issues do I get fired up by? Now if there isn’t an organisation already doing it, then how do I set it up? Right? How do I start this movement myself?
14:52
DL
And by doing just that simple activity of writing down the resources you have, the people you know, you can really jump onto something and if you need a directory of sort of organisations and what they do, Democracy Classroom have some really good stuff. But also, yeah, you can definitely get in touch with the My Life My Say team and we’ll put you in the right direction.
15:07
MP
First of all, amazing, kind of, direction for young people if they want to get involved. They can go directly to My Life My Say and all the work that you’re doing. And also the advice that to find those resources around you. And like you said, the people around you are typically your best resources, your network.
15:22
MP
And I think that’s amazing advice and I think that’s advice that probably young people need because I think when I was younger I also used to think, oh well, what can I do? I don’t know. I don’t have any skills. I don’t have any, you know. But it’s not true at all. And you’re so right to say that being in school, having so many people around you, having support from the teachers and the adults, that is such a great, great stepping stone for getting to where you want to get to.
15:45
MP
Thank you for sharing all that, your kind of motivations as well as lots of advice there for young people. So keep, like you said, keep a lookout for everything My Life My Say is doing and hope everything goes super well for you.
15:56
DL
Thank you. Really appreciate your time.
15:58
MP
You can find out more about the work we do at Cumberland Lodge with young people and beyond by visiting cumberlandlodge.ac.uk. You can also find us on social media @CumberlandLodge. Thanks again to Dan, and thanks for listening.